EP 006 | Growth Under Pressure: The $500M founder’s hard lesson: build your finance system before it breaks, with John Olsen

John Olsen built and sold multiple healthcare ventures, including EncompassRx, a specialty pharmacy that reached over $500 million in annual revenue and exited to CVS. He shares how rapid growth nearly collapsed the business under its own weight, and why rebuilding three years of books became the turning point that reshaped his approach to leadership, balance, and financial discipline.

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🌟 Highlights

• “First in, last out”: why nobody should care more than the founder
• Open-door > top-down: trust, empathy, and letting people make mistakes
• Balancing babies: building a company with a newborn, and how communication at home keeps it together
• Culture by design: expectations, honesty about startup intensity, and unusually low early turnover
• The near-miss: attempting a recap without audit-ready books (and why rebuilding 3 years of financials changed the company)
• Pen to paper: lists, morning cadence, and one KPI John checks daily
• Chaos mindset: the Mario Andretti quote John kept on his desk
• From pharmacist to CEO: how empathy for patients translates to leadership

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⏱️ Timestamps / Chapters

00:00 — Intro & setup: pharmacist → founder → multiple exits
01:00 — CEO fundamentals: trust, empathy, open-door, practice what you preach
03:00 — “First in, last out”: founder ownership & work ethic
05:00 — Family vs. startup intensity: boundaries, communication, the week-two pregnancy
09:00 — Pharmacist empathy → leadership under pressure
10:00 — Handling emotion: owning mistakes, reconciling; building resilient culture
14:00 — Demand outpacing cash: the midnight faxed check
15:00 — Recap wake-up: rebuilding three years of books and what changed
18:00 — Do finance early: accrual / GAAP, margin visibility, investor readiness
28:00 — Operating in chaos: John’s Mario Andretti mindset
31:00 — Morning routine: kids, dog walk, coffee, workout; podcasts to clear the mind
37:00 — Daily cadence / KPI & “no meetings before 10 a.m.”; quick-fire + wrap

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Transcript

Eric: [00:00:00] John, welcome to the podcast. Thanks. Glad to be here. Good to see you. Super excited to have you here. Okay, so you founded many companies, you've had three successful exits, and you've, you've pretty much killed it. Now you have a new startup in the healthcare space. Very impressive. But as a trained pharmacist, you went straight into being a CEO.

What does it, what does it take to be a good CEO?

John: Yeah, so I definitely didn't go straight into being a CEO. Like, you know, I graduated from college with a pharmaceutical degree, you know, I went just, I worked, I worked behind the counter at a Rite Aid, you know, like I was just a regular pharmacist, which was miserable.

Um, but I've always been an entrepreneur, um, at heart. So eventually I got the opportunity to, um, start, start my own company through. You know, the grace [00:01:00] of others in the industry that trusted me and, uh, I think it was eye-opening. You know, it was kind of like learning on the fly to, to start. But like, as far as the CEO piece goes, I think, um, management of people has never been like a super strong suit of mine.

But, but I learned how to do it. Um, I think, uh, you know what. What makes, you know, I was trained in science and none of that is managing people. None of it is business. Um, but, but that was like, you know, my passion was business. Um, so I guess what makes a good CEO is I would like. Mm-hmm. Um, I think letting others' voices be heard, trusting your team.

Um, being sympathetic, empathetic, uh, allowing people to make mistakes. Uh, understanding people's strengths and weaknesses and helping lead them, um, [00:02:00] through that. Also practicing what you preach. So, you know, somebody sitting behind a desk, barking orders, um, being critical, that's never gonna work. Um, you know, I always prided myself on our staff, um, and team being, uh, you know, treating them like equals being.

Always open door policy. I think, you know, a lot of people that I worked with over the years would consider me a friend first. Um, now obviously there's times that I was not a friend, but, but, uh, yeah, I think, I think it's treat others as how,

Eric: how you want to be treated basically. Mm. So the golden rule, just Absolutely.

Yeah. If there's anything you could lean on, it'd be the golden rule. I think so, yeah. I worked for you early in my career and you've become a business partner and a friend and someone that I can take advice from. So see, it worked. It, it does work. But I remember those days at Encompass when you'd [00:03:00] have your door open.

Like there were very few times you'd have your door closed and that was probably working on something that had a, had a strict deadline. Yeah. So you have that open door policy, but I also saw you first thing in the morning. So do you think a. You know, is it first in last out? Is that, is that just a tried and true method?

For sure. Like,

John: absolutely. Nobody should care about your business and what you're producing and who you're serving more than you, right? If there's somebody that's committing more hours than you, if there's somebody that cares more than you, um, if, if there's somebody that's more consumed by the business than you, there's a problem.

Right. Yeah. So you should absolutely First one in last one out. You should be thinking about it on the weekends at nights. Um, you know, obviously that can be unhealthy to a degree. Mm-hmm. But, uh, but certainly nobody should be caring about this business more than you.

Eric: Yeah. They always say if you're not working, your competitor is and they'll beat you.

Yeah. So, I mean, you're a family man. You have [00:04:00] a handful of kids. Yep. You have three or four. Three kids. Yeah. Three kids, thank God, not four. Yeah. Yeah, I stopped at three as well. Yeah, that's a good choice. So how do you, how do you balance that to say, Hey, you know what, I could be working 80 hours and I don't see my family for those out there that all, you know, I have a two, four, and a 6-year-old.

Yeah. And I think that's one of those roadblocks where it's like, I could be here in the office, or I could be spending time with my kids. Of course there's a balance between them, but what's your, yeah. What was your method early in, in the early days?

John: Yeah, so, um, it de definitely, you know, a balance there.

And luckily I had an have an incredible wife, um, that understands, you know, our priorities and what I was trying to accomplish and, you know. Our companies would not have been what, what they were without, you know, a partner like that. So, um, not unfortunately, [00:05:00] but, uh, I don't know how to put this, but, so, like, I had just started this company, um, in, in Compass, right?

In 2012. Mm-hmm. I was the only employee, right. Didn't have anybody else to support me. And like two weeks in, my wife comes in to our little. You know, 900 square foot pharmacy and tells me she's pregnant. First one with a third, third. So, so we had already had two. I had quit my well-paying job. She, you know, she had a good job in the finance industry, uh, with benefits and, but, but now I'm making like no money.

I'm gonna be working incredibly long hours. Um, and I just took on a massive amount of risk by starting this venture and she's pregnant. Um, it was not a pleasant conversation. It wasn't expected. Um, it was a blessing obviously looking back, but, um, that [00:06:00] immediately from the get go I was like, holy shit, what are we gonna do?

Um, but so to to balance, I've always been. I like to consider myself a good father. I coached all my son's baseball teams, even through, you know, entrepreneurial endeavors and startups. Um, I've always been there because, um, it's what I've always wanted to do. Um, and, uh, and you know, it's what my father did.

Um, so we would, I worked seven days a week. I would get up. Help, help with breakfast, help see the kids off to school or you know, um, daycare, whatever it was, go to work. And actually the first space we had was just a by design, a quarter mile from my house. So I could walk and go back and forth, you know, so I'd come home for dinner every night with the family, bedtime sometimes, and then I'd go back to the office.

Um, so [00:07:00] you have to balance it. You have to be there for your kids. And you also, you know, have to be there for your other baby, which is the company. Um, and I failed certainly many times at that, but I think overall I succeeded.

Eric: We talked about over communication as being a really important aspect. So do you think that also, you know, applies to this as well with your wife to say, Hey, you know what, I, this is i'll, I'll be home for dinner.

Or if something pops up, Hey, an emergency just happened. Yeah. I, I feel like that in my life where, you know, and I have a 6:00 PM hard stop every night. I stop at 6:00 PM I pick back up at at eight if I need to. Yeah. Six to eight is family time. Yeah. So did, so you had that, that family time? I did. And then if you needed to work through it, you would just communicate For sure.

Yeah.

John: Communication's so important. Um, obviously we would do. Events, dinners with clients, things like that where I wouldn't be able to [00:08:00] be home. We would travel to conferences, um, stuff like that. But, um, so I couldn't always be there obviously. But, um, luckily my wife was tremendously understanding. She had a father in the golf industry and he was required to be.

On site at the club seven days a week.

Speaker 3: Mm.

John: Uh, he was so, she just kind of like, this is what a father and a husband should be doing. So I was lucky in that regard. She was like, she didn't expect me to be home a lot. But yeah, communication's key, especially, you know, in a marriage, you know, but, but obviously also in business.

Eric: Going back to being a good CEO, was there any. Translation between being a good pharmacist and a good CEO that you could apply?

John: Um, I, good question. I've never thought about that before actually, but, um, you know, pharmacists are one of the most trusted, um, professions in America. [00:09:00] Them and nurses are typically, you know, one and two.

Uh, so I think just being a good pharmacist, you need to be sympathetic. You need to understand people's problems. You need, you need to want to help people, um, first and foremost, um, which, which I did, and that's kind of why I became a pharmacist. Um, so I think just the nature of being in a profession where you're trying to help people, uh, for sure.

Yeah. I think that applies and, and probably carries over into CEO role.

Eric: Yeah. And so that empathy piece. I know I've seen it before, so like firsthand, I've seen the empathy, but I've also seen the rage for me, maybe rage is the wrong word, but I've seen some, some blowups where you, you're just not a happy camper.

Yeah. How do you balance the two as this as a leader? So, yeah,

John: no, no offense taken by that. Thanks. Um, and they were all, they were all resolved, warranted, that's why we're still here. Most of them were warranted. [00:10:00] Um, alright. Anytime when there's a incredible amount of passion and demand and risk and you've got a hundred plus employees to take care of, like obviously the pressure is tremendous.

Um, and you could feel that, and sometimes, you know, it results in frustration and anger. Um, I think as I've, I'm 46 now. I, you know, when I started my first company, I was, I guess 30. Um, so. Uh, I'm much different now. Um, I think I'm, I'm a lot better at handling stress and emotion and anger, but, um, yeah, that's, I think you've got to understand, um, if something like that happens.

You, you have to be the bigger person, um, and admit your mistakes and, and apologize and, you know, reconcile, right? You can't just leave [00:11:00] it or, you know, it's gonna be traumatic and hard to overcome for everybody. But, um, yeah, I didn't always have a cool head. And I think that comes along with the passion, um, which I don't think like.

We rarely had anyone quit. I'm not even sure if in the first four years of our business, if anyone quit. Wow. Um, I can't remember anyone. Uh, like I, I feel like we had, you know, it was understanding that this was a high stress environment. Um, and people, the expectations were there early on, right? We, when we hired somebody, we're like, look, this is a startup.

We're under a lot of pressure. Mm-hmm. We expect and demand, you know, beyond a 40 hour work week, we compensate well. But, um, you know, the expectation is, is you're gonna be there when you need to be there, when the company needs you. Um, and, uh, I think overall we, there was more positivity than negativity. A lot of tears from [00:12:00] everybody, but I think that's startup life.

Eric: Yeah. But you created a really strong culture, a positive work environment. Yeah. You also took pharmacists out of retail Yeah. And allowed them to, you know, work offsite. Right. And they don't have to see patients every day. They're in their face. Yeah. Yeah.

John: Yeah. I think it was a unique workplace for that industry.

Mm-hmm. Like, not a lot of people got to experience that. Um, so it was attractive, but also, you know, we let people wear whatever they wanted to, to work. Within reason. Um, you know, we, we took care of them on site, you know, with things like, you know, um, this sounds really trivial, but like, you know, the nice ice that's crunchy that you can chew, like stuff, you know, stuff like that, that people wanted to make their day a little bit more, more pleasant.

And we did lunches and dinners and parties and like, it was, I think it was fun place to work overall.

Eric: I remember I showed up. In a, in a suit and tie to my interview with you [00:13:00] guys and Tim, the, the CFO said, don't wear that. Don't, don't do that again. He was like, I appreciate it. You know, of course he's old school and he appreciated it, but he was like, that's not, that's not the culture here.

Yeah. Um, so we had mon your co-founder on the podcast with us, and he shared some very tough moments where you just don't know, like. You had to, you had to, um, I, I think it was you had to fill some prescriptions and like you didn't have an order on time or, or you didn't have the cash to pay for that order.

Yeah, yeah, certainly. But just from taking a step back and looking at all the things in the, the entrepreneur cycle, I know things got dark at times. Yeah. And we always ask, what was that growth under pressure moment? Do you have one? One? I mean,

John: I, I have a hundred, um, but my, I won't repeat, you know, Monty's story, but I [00:14:00] know exactly what he's talking about is like, you know, whi which honestly this is a positive thing to encounter, is like there's so much demand, you don't have the cash to cover it, right?

Yeah. Um, and this was like, we would be faxing checks at 11:59 PM to our wholesalers. You know, just to keep time stamped. Yeah. Like, we know they can't cash this today, you know, and they probably won't get to it tomorrow, but it's there so we can get our next order. Um, you know, it was difficult to manage, you know, the growth at times.

Um, pharmacy is such a regulated space. Uh, you know, it's probably the most regulated space, maybe behind finance. I think probably like one moment in that first company encompasses life. Um. That was challenging in a, in a growth phase beyond what, what Monty shared was, um, when it came time to do a recapitalization, right?

Like, okay, we, we [00:15:00] have grown tremendously. We've created a ton of value in this space. Let's find a partner to help us get to the next phase, right? Um, the, the ability for us to do that and. Become like a real company. Mm-hmm. Uh, was a tremendous undertaking. We did not have a bookkeeper. We had not reconciled every claim that had come in the door.

Um, so when you're trying to put together, you know, your story, um, you need to be able to support it with evidence. Right. Um. Through financial audit or Q of E or whatever. And so we, we had to go back and, and rebuild like three years of, of books because they just weren't there. Wow. It wasn't one of the things we were thinking about, you know?

We were like, okay, let's just, let's just get, uh. You know, let's get, let's serve people, let's do good. [00:16:00] Um, let's serve 'em fast and effectively and treat people's conditions and cure them. At the time. You know, what we were dispensing, you know, was curing people of horrible conditions. Um. And so the money it took and the time it took to go back and do that, and the commitment, you know, that we had to say, okay, we're actually gonna do this.

And then ultimately we decided through all of that, not to do the recap. Um, so, but it put us in a much better place and we identified a lot of things that, um, we could be doing better. And, um, and I, and I think it changed the company from there, honestly. It was like. A horrific experience to go back and do that.

Um, but it changed the company, it changed our trajectory. It helped us understand the business even more. Um, so I look back at that and like, you know, it was a miserable several months,

Eric: but um, it was worth it. It was needed. Yeah. Do you remember how many employees you guys had at that time? At that time? Um, I would say, [00:17:00] I would say probably like 40 or 50.

40. Yeah. And when. When, when the company was sold to CVS, it was a hundred plus, right? It was over a hundred. Yeah. We had a full

John: sales team. Full finance team. Yep. Clinical, everything. Yeah, definitely hr. Yep. Which was really needed at the time. Yep. Legal attorney. Yeah. Yeah. We had, we'd hired an

Eric: attorney on site.

Yeah. For compliance. Yeah. Or full-time legal counsel, if you will. Yeah. Yeah. Um, so how, just looking back, would you have started doing bookkeeping? Um, fp and a, which one would you have, if any, would you have accelerated in, in, you know, three years before that?

John: Yeah. I, I think I definitely like in the companies I've started since, as you very well know, because you've been a partner in most of them.

Speaker 3: Yeah.

John: Um, if not all of 'em from the jump. Is, let's get, let's get your accounting and books in order, because one day will come where you want to recap or you wanna sell, or you got an [00:18:00] opportunity. You need to have that straight first and foremost. I think a lot of founders, a lot of young CEOs are just so focused on growth in the business and getting it going.

Yeah. That you don't spend the time, you know, necessary to, to, uh, you know. Focus on the financial aspect.

Eric: Yeah. That's usually the last piece. Right? Right. And we, we, of course, specialize in it. So I, I can't tell you how many cleanups we've done that are like three to four years back. Yeah. We haven't filed our taxes in four years because, oh God, our books are not done.

Well, thank God we weren't one of those,

John: you

Eric: guys

John: were filing taxes. We were at least filing our taxes and we had a general idea of how much money we were making. Um, yeah. But. It was just when you have, like, when you're hundreds of claims a day, you know, and it has to be reckon each claim has to be reconciled against the drug you purchased.

And, um, there's rebates associated and you've got a, you know, [00:19:00] uh, I learned a lot about gap. Mm-hmm. Um, and things like that. I was like, what's that? Um,

Eric: you know, I didn't know anything. But yeah, here we are. Yeah. For those who don't know, it's US. Gap generally accepted accounting principles. It's the accrual based.

Standard here in the US and Gap is used around the world and it's cash versus accrual is pretty much saying, Hey, cash inver versus cash out, or, Hey, when was it serviced? When was, yeah, when, when did you have someone? When did you have a vendor perform a service or provide a product versus paying, you know, the money upfront?

It's, it's all about timing with accrual. And accrual really is a tried and true. And that's what, that's what we do from the jump. Yep. Because that's what gives you the real business insights. Yeah. Yeah. Totally necessary. So then you were able to adjust margins. I mean, we, we've talked about this many times, but a lot of what I was doing is identifying where we can improve on our margins.

Yep. And so, [00:20:00] um, I agree with you. That should be done early on. So little nod to your, your company here. Yeah, just, uh, to my own horn. It's, it's needed. So, okay. Quick pivot to your childhood. 'cause I think what's important is always to hear how does a successful entrepreneur go from being a kid from Kansas?

Yep. Kansas born and raised, you know, a kid from Kansas that ends up being a pharmacist and a CEO and a. Successful entrepreneur. Was there something about your childhood that's maybe different? Um, I can't say there was something about my childhood. You had a, you had a small little, like, si you were selling candy on the corner or something.

I, I mean,

John: from a young age, I was really, I I was hustling maybe not in the corner in Kansas, right on the fields next to the wheat field. Um. [00:21:00] I, you know, I remember growing up and yeah. Bagging, candy, selling at school, mixed tapes. You know, like I, I had, uh, one of those, uh, cassette decks at home where you could put one, you know, you could buy a tape.

Uh, I don't know if your audience knows what that is. No. Like a cassette tape. This is before CDs. Um, which maybe they don't even know what that is. Um, but. You could put one in on one side and then a blank one on the other and dub it. You just copy everything over. And then I would sell those at school. So like I'd get the latest Bell biv DeVos tape and then, you know, go sell a copy of it at school.

So I was doing that. Mixed tapes, um, and uh, baseball cards. I actually, like, remember I started with baseball card, like shows in my basement, you know, advertising the newspaper. You know, buy a bunch of like wax boxes, sell cards, sell my own cards, have people come to my basement and then I graduated from that to [00:22:00] like real card shows.

So I would buy cards and then go sell them at, with a bunch of adults at like the local hotel, Howard Johnson. Like, um, wow. I'm 12 years old with a bunch of like 45-year-old, 50-year-old men selling baseball cards. Um, so I've always been this way, um, which is very different than my parents. You know, my, my dad was a air traffic controller, um, got laid off during the reg administration, moved us to Saudi Arabia, uh, you know, when I was really young.

Um, so he, he was the only place he could get a job. Uh, so we lived over there for a few years, came back, worked for the USDA government guy. Um, you know, my mom worked in a lab testing blood. Um, so. You know, they weren't entrepreneurs. In fact, when I told my dad, um, that I was starting my own company, I was quitting my job, starting my own company, he was disgusted.

He's like, you have a good job. Why can't you just accept your salary and move on? [00:23:00] Um, so I, I don't know. It was just something about me. I always wanted to do it. Um,

Eric: I always had that passion. That hunger. Yeah. My mom wrote me a letter when I started Adapt CFO, and she was like, I don't think this is the right time.

Yeah, your wife is pregnant. Yeah. You shouldn't leave your job. And and she talked me out of leaving the job before I came to Encompass. 'cause she was like, you had a great, and before that she also thought I should say at the other job. So yeah. I think there's a story like this about the guys that founded Uber.

Yeah. I believe it. There's always someone telling you, or like one of the first employees not to take

John: Yeah. Like talked

Eric: him out

John: of it

Eric: and it was just a huge miss. Oh, yeah. Yeah. I mean, there's balance to it, right? But there's, there's reward and risk, right? So yeah. I think that's important and, and so we want to get our kids overseas at some point to see what else is out there in the world.

Mm-hmm. Living in Saudi Arabia. Do you [00:24:00] like, does that have any impact on your, your timeline? Um, well, so I was super

John: young, right? Like four years old, so there's a lot I don't remember, but we lived in a compound, like double wide trailers full of international people. Um, I know it was not a pleasant experience for my mother.

Mm-hmm. Um, so may maybe, maybe it was like may, maybe subconsciously, like my dad was a union guy, went on strike, got fired. Maybe subconsciously, it's like, I don't ever wanna be put in that situation. I'm gonna make it for myself and nobody's gonna be able to fire me even though I've been fired plenty. Um, this is maybe also a reason that'll be for the next one.

Had to become an entrepreneur. Nobody would keep me. Um, so may maybe in the back of my mind, like maybe that's weighs on me through, through childhood. I don't know. You get a therapist on here, um, maybe they'd be, they'd have some more insight to that, but. You know, that obviously was traumatic for my mother.

Moving over there was not a great [00:25:00] place for women, especially American women. Um, but my dad did what he had to do to keep us, you know, in a home, um, and, uh, and provide for us,

Eric: which is easier said than done. Yeah, you gotta, you gotta work hard, you gotta show up. It's the same thing as, you know, as being an entrepreneur, juggling balance between family and work.

Speaker 4: Yeah.

Eric: So was there anything different that your dad did that, you know, was he just like this military, Hey, wake up at 5:00 AM and help me, help me. Like, was there anything different that he did? I know it was innate in you, but a lot of times there's a father or a mother that, it's funny. Um,

John: my dad was like the opposite of that.

Eric: Yeah.

John: He, he had a saying like, we, we'd, he'd be building it. We'd be building a deck right on our house or something like that, and he, he would, he would always say, oh, that's good enough for government work. You know, he, he was [00:26:00] not, he was not that guy. He was like, that's good. Let's go take a, a break. He was good enough.

Let's, let's move on. He was, he was that kind of dude, which I also appreciate, but, um, I, I think we're not similar my, in that regard. My brother is the same way. My brother's an aerospace engineer. One of the smartest guys I've ever met in my life works for. Worked for Hughes, works for Boeing. Um, and uh, he does stuff I could never do.

Um, but he is very much like, you know, uh, not an entrepreneur in that regard. Yeah. But his wife is so That's funny.

Eric: That's interesting. Um, so were you homeschooled when you were on the road or you were always in some form of education? Public. Private. Yeah. Yeah. I went to British

John: school in um, Saudi. So, um, I was with, you know, a bunch of international kids.

Um, came back to the States, spoke with a British accent. We've got tapes. That's [00:27:00] awesome. Again, reference to tapes. We've got audio recordings. It's hilarious. I sound like a fool. Um, but yeah, no, always in public. Never went to private school. Was in public school. Um, and then maybe, I guess the one in Saudi would've been pri private, I guess.

But, um. I went to public university, went to the University of Kansas, and it was just like always given, like, grew up in Kansas, you're gonna go to Kansas, you know? Yeah. Like my brother went there. Um, my folks were from Iowa, so they went to school in Iowa. But um, yeah.

Eric: Great. So how do you stay calm in a world of chaos?

'cause you, there's a lot of shit and there's a lot of chaos. You know, I, I've seen a lot of moving pieces since we've worked together so much. Some days, and that's the entrepreneur journey, right? Some days you're at the top and the next day after being at the high, you're at the bottom.

John: Yeah. I think that's part of it.

I think you gotta embrace that and I, [00:28:00] my favorite quote of all time, and I share this with a lot of people, but this embodies like, in my opinion, the idea of entrepreneurship. It's by Mario Andretti. Yeah. And it is, if everything is seems under control, you're just not going fast enough. So he didn't say it about entrepreneurship, he said it about car racing.

Yeah, but I read that on a sign 20 years ago and it's always stuck with me. I'm like, if, and I always applied that, like that, that sign that was in my office, on my desk at all times. I just wrote it on a piece of paper and had it stuck on my computer. Um. And still it's in my house. I, I just think like, if things are easy, you know, something's, you're not doing it.

Mm-hmm. The way you should be doing it, you know, like, yeah. If, if everything just comes naturally is easy, there's no trouble then, then I think you could do better. Then [00:29:00]

Eric: you can turn the heat up. Yeah, exactly. Do you have a go-to methodology when something goes wrong where, Hey, I may just. Go for a walk, I may just lay down.

I may scream into a pillow. Yeah. Or do you just sit there and you just suffer through it? What's, do you have a standard?

John: I, I think it helps me, um, to, first of all, I love problem solving. Uh, again, it goes back to like, you know. And I think Monty, you know, you had him on here. I think he would say the same thing about himself, but like, when problems arose in the business and when they arise in the business today, it's, it's fun to try to fix them, you know, as long as it's not like catastrophic, like a story you told me, you know, earlier today.

Um, but I think it always helps to write it down, right? Like I'm a big proponent of lists. Um, write down your plan even [00:30:00] if it's just for you. Um, you know, put pen to paper. It helps you get your ideas out. It helps you understand the problem, how to solve it. Um, I don't think things need to always be solved immediately.

So, like you said, go for a walk, whatever it is, and everybody's gonna have their own. I, I think it's, I don't necessarily have something like that that I would do, but, um. I mean, we could talk forever about just practices in your day that are gonna, uh, that are gonna help you overall in business that are outside of just the business practice.

But I think pen to paper understand that problem, you know, get it in front of you, something tangible. Like that's always what I've done.

Eric: I always try to write my list on paper, but there are a lot of people doing it on, you know, reminders with their apps. Yeah. Yeah. I always feel, and I heard a consultant, uh, that was doing a podcast with Tim Ferriss years ago that said, he goes in, he meets with the CEO and he says, look, just brain dump [00:31:00] everything onto one sheet of paper.

Yeah. And that's kind of what I'll do if I'm not sure if there's too much going on. I'll just brain dump everything and then I'll condense it into a smaller list, like action items. Yeah. Yeah. That seems to work for me. Yeah, I like that idea for sure. Okay. I'll have to charge you a licensing fee for it.

Like everything else. Yeah.

Do you have a morning routine?

John: I have tried and tried like every Who? Who's that dude online that is, he was the Saratoga Water guy. Oh yeah. With the ice? Yeah, with the ice. I don't do anything like that, but um. Um, so I love to get up and, you know, take care of the kids with my wife, get 'em ready for school if it's during, during the school year.

Um, and then once that's done, I like to walk the dog. Hmm. Uh, so walk the dog every morning. Um, [00:32:00] it's, it's not long, 45 minutes, but it's time to just, you know, be outside. You know, that's super important. I am not one of those guys that can delay the coffee. I have to have that immediately. That's the first thing you have.

That's the first thing I have. And I know there's a lot of studies about drink a glass of water first. Yep. Hour. Yeah.

Eric: Delay the coffee. And I can't, an hour can't, I

John: can't

Eric: do it. I try. I don't wanna do it. Mine's usually like half an hour. You can delay it

John: half an hour. I try. I don't, there's no reason for me to be angry at that, that early.

So just like, I'm gonna have my coffee. It's not, I, I don't think it's hurting anybody. Um. So, uh, you seem to be doing just fine. Yes, yes. Most days. So, coffee, walk the dog. You got me involved in this AG one stuff. Yeah. So I mix that, drink that. Um, I always try to work out before I start my day. Um, so exercise, walking the dog, I count it, but I [00:33:00] also need to do something else too.

So whether that's lifting, running. Um, just core work, whatever, uh, do something else physical,

Eric: uh, and then start the day. Nice. Do you have headphones in while you're walking the dog and working out? Are you listening to a podcast or a I do a lot

John: of

Eric: podcasts. Okay.

John: Um, mostly like mind numbing true crime stuff.

Mm. Because it helps me just not think. Right. Like, like any, anybody you know that's probably watching this or, or you like. If you're left alone with your own thoughts, it's gonna be just all about work. Yeah. And what's next and what do you have to do tomorrow and what's that list? And um, so I try to just play something that lets me, you know, I guess go blank, so to speak.

Just something that's almost fiction. Yeah.

Eric: I they do say not to jump right into work. Yeah. Do you hold off on looking at emails first thing? No, you can't, it's hard. It's so hard not to.

John: Like the phone is the worst thing on earth. Yeah. [00:34:00] But I, I am checking emails from the time I wake up to the time I go to bed.

And sometimes when you get up in the middle of the night to use the bathroom, then, then too. That's the worst. I'm getting better at that.

Eric: I don't do that. That's good. I will not, I, I put my phone on silent. Oh really? I don't, I don't never, I mean, it's always on silent actually, for the record. Wow. So if I, if my phone lights up and I catch it from the corner of my eye, that's, oh, but it's not on Do not disturb.

It's not on do not disturb. Yeah. Just silent. No, mine's on silent. Yeah. I feel like a lot of people are doing that these days where, you know, it went from ringer to vibrate. Most people have it on vibrate. Yeah. Which I, mine actually doesn't even vibrate.

Speaker 4: Yeah.

Eric: But I don't know why. That's a hardware issue.

Yeah. My, I, I choose to just keep it on silent. It works. Yeah. Yeah. No,

John: I, I do that too, for sure, but I look at it a lot. Have you heard this like phantom vibrate thing now?

Eric: No. Oh, yes. Yes. I do feel that. Yeah. It's like haunts us. Yeah. So you're [00:35:00] like, oh, my phone just went off. You're like, no, nothing. As long as it's not happening in your sleep.

Yeah. No, it's So what, so what podcast? You have a good one, good Crime. One that you've listened to recently or

John: are listening to, uh, n right now. Oh, I just finished one that was about a dude that perpetrated like the largest social security fraud scheme ever in the history of the us. I listened to that.

Wow. Um, I, I think the best podcast I ever listened to was S Town. Hmm. Look it up.

Eric: S town.

John: We'll have to It's link it. Yeah. It's solid. Okay. Um, I don't know any, anything like Sean Kite. He's really good. He's a Georgia guy, so all of his stories are usually take place in Georgia. Um, and have to do with some, you know, mystery crime,

Eric: uh, police corruption, that, that sort of thing.

The only one I [00:36:00] listened to is it was like Doctor Death. A while ago. I tried to listen to that.

John: That was horrific. It's so horr. It's horrifying. Yeah. I couldn't, I couldn't listen to that one. I don't like stuff like that. Okay.

Eric: Like, I don't like it when people get hurt. Yeah. The guys just demented going around killing his patients.

Yeah. That's one that's, it was, it was very interesting. I enjoyed it, but it was, it was eye-opening for sure. Yeah. So since you don't drink coffee. But since you delay, since you don't delay your coffee, what is a KPI that you look at after your coffee in the morning every day? Like if you could, if you could gimme one KPI with my business or my

John: life,

Eric: your could be both.

John: Could be either, man. Um, so back to lists. I always am adjusting my list for the day, reviewing it kind of obsessively. [00:37:00] So. I look at what I accomplished the day before and then look what I have to accomplish today, every morning. Wow. Um, and I think that's helpful. Um, as far as, yeah. And it changes like as, as you go on with life.

But, um, yeah, I think, I think it's just, you know, I, I like to have control of my day, so I stay very regimented. Um, I don't schedule meetings. Before 10:00 AM like, I'm working before 10, but I, I do not want to take meetings before that. Um, because I want to give myself time to catch up and organize from, from anything I missed or needed to do yesterday and organize mm-hmm.

The, the day further.

Eric: Yeah. And you are working, I I've seen emails first thing in the morning. So you are working. I can confirm that. Yeah. Just don't call me. Right. Most people say cash as a KPI Are you, are you looking at your list before you go to bed? 'cause a lot of, a lot of people say [00:38:00] that is the best way to settle, sink it in.

Yep.

John: And it lessens anxiety about the next day. 'cause you're ready. I know exactly what's laid out ahead of me. I don't get the Sunday scaries because I know, hey, this is my day. I've said it accordingly, like

Eric: it's gonna be fine. That's great. Okay, last question. That, that was your quick, your SEC or two of three quick fire questions and this will wrap us up.

So a man under pressure should always fill in the, fill in the blank. A man under pressure should always a man or woman. Yeah, I got that. Um, know who they can depend on. Awesome. A man under press, a man or woman under pressure should always know who they can depend on. Yeah. Great. This was fun. Had a great time.

Yeah, thank you. Till next time. Yeah. Appreciate it. Let's do it.

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